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i agree with dean. and ken. new guy shows up for 2015 pays a bunch of money gets put on the trailer 2nd run. Never Races Again.

So I am going to play devils advocate....... We had some new guys show up this year and were put on the trailer in 2 passes both days....... Both guys came to the next race with better faster set ups. Double elim is the standard for any drag racing. Even after the first day we had 4 of the new guys at keelings and all the racers were helping improve the set ups and trading props giving advice. That is what this stuff is all about. Nobody can expect to ever come and race for the first time in any motor sports and win. In the past we have tried to pair boats so that they run a boat that they will be close with first. We can't do it all the time. The other issue would be the complication of the ladder and trying to figure it out on the start boat. We are also already have a full day with TORC and some of the venues have time limits for noise. Gravenhurst being one of them. ........ The first year I raced I was put on the trailer after 2 passes. 2 years ago at dunnville Patrick won the saturday and was put on the trailer in 2 passes sunday....... That is racing and just the way it goes

I may need to be corrected on this BUT, if I remember a few years ago there was a similar problem with a southern group on s/f and I think they adopted a modified round robin setup to get more runs per boat?

So, let me break down 'bunch of money' for New Guy:

- CBF weekend fee: $50, assuming they did not pay CBF annual fee, which most Drag guys do not
- TORC annual club fee: $50, assuming they actually paid this, which covers GH & DV; I know some dodged paying this.
- TORC daily entry fee: $40 per day x 2 = $80

Therefore:
- First weekend Drag racing(GH), assuming they pay all required fees: $180, $90/day
- Second weekend Drag racing(DV): $130, $65/day
- Two weekend season cost: $310, $77.50/day.
- If Newbie only earns 2 passes/day, 4days: $38.75 per pass, $7.75/sec @ 5secs/pass, 40 secs/season. A ride on NASA space shuttle is prolly less/sec.

Now, here's the magic powder in all this: Northbase Drag HQ experience factor, NB 'come test Friday' factor, setup recommendations/changes til 2am factor, the 'Holy Shit, never seen that before' factor, the 'F-me, I never dreamed of hitting Xmph' factor, the Ted/Yammer/Archer/Keeling top NA guys factor, the top free advice from all others factor, the Kenny/Pat/Gig LMFAO comedy festival factor, my occasional 'Loch Kashe' skinny dipping factor, the 'Great Escape over barbed wire/tunnelling out from wife' factor, and finally 'I've never had so much F'n fun' factor.
Then Newbie goes to DV, it all comes together, with a bunch of great guys equally pleased you're running faster, and giving them a challenge: PRICELESS.
Newbie is pissing himself like a puppy to do it all over again next year at huge annual $310 'bunch of money'.

But sure, to distill it down to $7.75/sec cost, for 40secs/season, the value doesn't add up.

Now, for the contingent horny for a full day of Drag only racing, facts:
- Costs approx $7500(eg: CFB Sanction, Insurance, Paramedics, etc...) and infrastructure volunteers to put on a race
- FIND A VENUE/TOWN THAT WILL TOLERATE IT ALL DAY(4-5 hours).
- TORC 2014 Drag results have 16 Drag boats competing, with Keeling in 3 classes, so say ~15 racers.
- $7.5K/15= $500/racer to put on a race. Then attrition, scheduling conflicts, 'wife won't let me', 'shit, that's a lot of work', ' I can't afford $500', 'not fair, why won't TORC pay for this'. Now you're down to 10 racers, $7.5K/10 = $750/racer....Yikes, and it all falls apart with further 'they should do this/that/the other'.

For those who dare to dream of a Drag only race day, do the math, find a venue, figure out who's in, go from there. Good luck.

I support Jeff's initiative as Drag Rep, to refine rules and competition; a compromise will result with another great 2015 season ahead.
GO DRAG!

Hydroid, I believe you, but there always those that question.
Jeff, a question, How many boats and drivers turn up down south for the championship runs.( support staff required?)
Now, if those that what a drag only day, you get this number to sign up and PER-PAY and I'll bet it can be done!
Sorry but I think some time will past before we are in a position to launch such an event! But we can grow!

This is a discussion about "RACING"

In racing you cannot ever be guaranteed to win anything - EVER !!!!

I am trying to push the racers themselves to agree to amend the rules we have to make for as level as a playing field as possible. I do not agree with having set or fixed round opponents what so ever as that is not RACING . The goal is to have a set of rules that balance out the boats that we have committed to race so that no matter who you face in any round you have a chance.

You all as racers must speak up and make this happen. Not me !!! I do not have a boat to race here , but I love that we have somewhere to race with the boats and people we have and could still gain if they came out. You will never satisfy most but we can try to modify the rules now to allow for a better chance for those that actually have come out to race. If there were ten boats that were all as equal as Jason , Pat & Ted then we'd have a Lake Racer Pro class but we do not. We have what we have and should do our best. Let's say Ted has to add 200lbs to his boat to make 1400 lbs then he's more than happy to do so in the spirit of making more exciting competition for all.
Our thoughts should not be based on any other organizations as we are our own organization and have our own group of boats that the rules could be made from.

As Kenny put it ..... we actually only have "Guidelines" right now......

Once again this is your set of rules. . . but remember no matter what the rules might be for any form of racing , there will always be a winner and a looser. I'd like to see those have a chance of being different names each race. .

Keep up the dialogue

I would like to see the weight set at 1400 and have the boats weighed at GH .... maybethe only other thing to add is stock heads for the guys like pat Ted and I.... Let the heavier boats like Dean run 150lbs max comp

The thing is that even at 150psi when tuned right is still premium pump gas and a stock 280's compression.
I'd really like to see heads allowed except an S3000 / DRAG that we've currently set at 150psi.

But that's just me thoughts.

I'll do up what I think is a good 2015 set of rules and see what everyone thinks

I'm sorry, but Erik's (Hydroid's) post above merits more commentary than I see.

Erik, well done. Simply brilliant, entertaining, spot-on.

As for drag racers "dodging" any annual fees, I brought up at Dunnville the likelihood of this inadvertently happening because there was no systemic cross-reference for organizers to ensure compliance (includes CBF). Speaking for myself, I tend to require being led by the nose, so I pay only what the organizers ask me for on race day. Not an excuse, just fact. If anyone had told me I wasn't squared as I should have been, I would pay immediately. I suspect others were caught off guard (maybe unwittingly so to this day), as well. One procedural cross-reference at registration and this issue goes away (I know, more unsolicited advice. Bloody hell.).

All that written, I'd gladly double-up my TORC dues if I could regularly read similar posts to the one you penned above! Love it.

Erik's most important point: There is so much buildup, time, and activity over and above actually racing those precious 800 feet that every event feels like far more than a complete weekend (never mind the fun of prepping in advance). And the relatively low cost of participation is just that, relatively low (my daughters are quite relieved I limit dipping into their RESPs to the summer months).

Okay, I'll refrain from any more cheer-leading for now. I think I hear teeth grinding...

i saw a lot of bull shit starts , meaning wave offs , turn around and line up again, which i thought was the same boat on several occasions and I'm not alone one this thought , just my 2 cents , i know i only attended 1 event , so I'm prob not worthy of commenting, but , i really had a blast running and meeting awesome people and boats