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T850 Engine Rule "SUGGESTIONS" for 2013

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 PostPosted: January 22nd, 2013, 9:36 am   
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DoktorC wrote:
Jake I think all 56's should just be considered SST60's so there's no point muddying the water.


It was up to the SST 60 specs. So you can run at the SST 60 spec or below the spec. So guys with the fishing block can go somewhere inbetween. Example raise the transfer port a little, but not the exhaust port. The key is the compression check. We have proven that the higher ported motors need that extra compression to gain any advantage. Going above the SST60 spec will gain you nothing. The grey area was the fishing motors that were just cleaned up or had minor port changes. This makes all of these motors legal.

The other grey area was the compression on an engine with decompression holes. It was agreed that those motors had a lower read. The group will have a spec head with a cc measurement for each of the 56 motors. You have the option of cutting your head or buying a legal billet head.
The other issue with the head and 160 compression rule was the Yamaha. You cannot cut a stock yamaha down enough to get 160 lb compression. It needed a custom stock head that made 160 lb. Since we needed a head for the yamaha we MUST offer the same option for the OMC. That is the reason for the head rule.

Guys wanted the option of balancing the motor without weighing multiples of parts to balance it. Same with the flywheel rule. Some run the 73 flywheel which is a little lighter, so it makes sense you can lighten a STOCK flywheel. Yamaha can be lightened as well.

Then there is the cool factor. The guys want their motors to look more racy and not like the old fishing motor you grand dad had.

The optional NO reverse rule is there because of the cost of the part, its current availablity and the fact that most have the motors locked in gear anyway. We are looking to getting the gear made locally. Most want to run it. We just don't want to lose a racer because he or she can't get a reverse gear.


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 PostPosted: January 22nd, 2013, 10:35 am   
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It was nice to see everyone out there and meet everyone I hadn't met yet. Thanks for the invite.

As I understood it, I think was simply going to be left at lightening of engine parts is allowed, and porting is allowed but no ports can be added for those rules.

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 PostPosted: January 22nd, 2013, 1:22 pm   
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Hevi Kevi wrote:
[1] lightening of engine parts is allowed, and porting is allowed
[2] no ports can be added


[1] The lightening of engine parts. THE ROTATING ASSEMBLY.
That would be flywheel. crank, rods and pistons.
Their intent was initially to balance the motor and have a flywheel in weight similiar to the lighter 73 flywheel. and have no performance improvement. The boys need to work on the wording of this rule.

EDIT NOTE: The T Racers want to improve the durability [race life] of their motors. That was the reason for balancing etc. I think lightening the rotating mass sends the wrong message. Your weakening the parts if you go too far. I am not sure if this rule was intented to help the Yamaha which would benefit performance wise because of its 1000 gram weight. The goal is to keep the competition as close as it is now. This maybe be difficult to keep. There is no question that the total change package will improve the performance for all. But, there is a much higher cost to bare for the racer who has to pay to have the alterations done.

[2] That is correct. You cannot add extra ports like finger ports. If your motor has a stock boost port. Then you can keep it. You cannot add them.


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 PostPosted: January 23rd, 2013, 10:12 am   
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Machine shop approximate prices.

The cost of a rebuildable 56 OMC sand cast power head has not changed, so for comparison lets say $700.00.
Boysen reeds $100.00
Final assembly cost unchanged

2012 Rules.
Machine shop $150.00 to do the head.

2013 suggested Rules IF YOU RAN THE COMPLETE PACKAGE
Billet head............................................$400.00
lightening flywheel.................................$200.00
Balancing crank.....................................$200.00
lightening crank.....................................$200,00
3 SST 60 sleeves...................................$400.00
Instal sleeves........................................$450.00
Match porting the block...........................$300.00
Clean up the intake runners and exhaust.... $150.00
Total $2300.00


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 PostPosted: January 23rd, 2013, 10:28 am   
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Hounddog wrote:
Machine shop approximate prices.

The cost of a rebuildable 56 OMC sand cast power head has not changed, so for comparison lets say $700.00.
Boysen reeds $100.00
Final assembly cost unchanged

2012 Rules.
Machine shop $150.00 to do the head.

2013 suggested Rules IF YOU RAN THE COMPLETE PACKAGE
Billet head............................................$400.00
lightening flywheel.................................$200.00
Balancing crank.....................................$200.00
lightening crank.....................................$200,00
3 SST 60 sleeves...................................$400.00
Instal sleeves........................................$450.00
Match porting the block...........................$300.00
Clean up the intake runners and exhaust.... $150.00
Total $2300.00


That's not bad...considering a new 9.9 is almost $3k...or a used A motor is $2k.

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 PostPosted: January 23rd, 2013, 10:42 am   
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DoktorC wrote:
That's not bad...considering a new 9.9 is almost $3k...or a used A motor is $2k.


$2k is not realistic for that OMC on kijiji to a racer... a few hundred high.

More comparable would be a fully race prepped and sealed Yamato 302 (30 hp, 60mph), fresh from Japan, with competitive USA prop for $2660. Rebuild cost by dealer, $250 (hone/pistons/rings). Add $350 or so and you can race this single engine in 4-5 classes at TORC races.

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 PostPosted: January 23rd, 2013, 10:52 am   
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Andrew4ce wrote:
DoktorC wrote:
That's not bad...considering a new 9.9 is almost $3k...or a used A motor is $2k.


$2k is not realistic for that OMC on kijiji to a racer... a few hundred high.

More comparable would be a fully race prepped and sealed Yamato 302 (30 hp, 60mph), fresh from Japan, with competitive USA prop for $2660. Rebuild cost by dealer, $250 (hone/pistons/rings). Add $350 or so and you can race this single engine in 4-5 classes at TORC races.


Perfect so for the price of one T750 toaster 50hp you can have 2 motors and race in 5-6 TORC classes :). Where else can you race on this kind of budget??

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 PostPosted: January 23rd, 2013, 11:03 am   
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It all comes down to the individual racer. We know that in 2012 and prior years in T850 there were motors in the class that were similar to the suggested rules for 2013. They didn't do any better at the races compared to the racer that ran bone stock.


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 PostPosted: January 23rd, 2013, 11:11 am   
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Hounddog wrote:
Hevi Kevi wrote:
[1] lightening of engine parts is allowed, and porting is allowed
[2] no ports can be added


[1] The lightening of engine parts. THE ROTATING ASSEMBLY.
That would be flywheel. crank, rods and pistons.
Their intent was initially to balance the motor and have a flywheel in weight similiar to the lighter 73 flywheel. and have no performance improvement. The boys need to work on the wording of this rule.

[color=#0000BF]EDIT NOTE: The T Racers want to improve the durability [race life] of their motors. That was the reason for balancing etc. I think lightening the rotating mass sends the wrong message. Your weakening the parts if you go too far. I am not sure if this rule was intented to help the Yamaha which would benefit performance wise because of its 1000 gram weight.


Don, what weighs 1000 grams on a yamaha the crank? is it moduler on the t 850 yamaha?
i would think a omc crank weighs that?

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 PostPosted: January 23rd, 2013, 11:17 am   
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[quote="tunnelv Don, what weighs 1000 grams on a yamaha the crank? is it moduler on the t 850 yamaha?
i would think a omc crank weighs that?[/quote]

Yes, the yamaha crank is modular. That is the weight of the crank and rods. Yamahas are heavier compared to the OMC crank and rods. The early OMC cast 49 crank is lighter than the later forged crank.


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